<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Modesty is a dirty word.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://sotah.net/2008/02/19/modesty-is-a-dirty-word/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://sotah.net/2008/02/19/modesty-is-a-dirty-word/</link>
	<description>faith, feminism and critique</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 03:10:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: rebecca m</title>
		<link>http://sotah.net/2008/02/19/modesty-is-a-dirty-word/#comment-555</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rebecca m]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://playingagirl.wordpress.com/?p=25#comment-555</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been thinking this over for a while, and am finally getting my thoughts organized enough to comment.  

To start-- how are you defining modesty?   At it&#039;s most fundamental level, there is modesty in wearing a bikini top-- the woman in question is choosing to cover part of her breasts.   

So I&#039;m guessing your definition is more along the lines of &quot;men dictating the rules for women&#039;s clothing&quot;.  Which I agree is icky.

My conflict between feminism and tzniyut is that I like dressing tzanua, I feel much more comfortable that way.  What my particular boundaries are have been somewhat influenced by how halacha I&#039;ve been raised with, that is part of who I am. I&#039;ve half-heartedly tried to stretch those limits out of curiosity, but it&#039;s never stuck.  

where I am with this at present:
-not judging other women for how they dress, or assuming I know their motivations
-not assuming that my opinions or practices will never change
-making decisions on halacha for myself]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking this over for a while, and am finally getting my thoughts organized enough to comment.  </p>
<p>To start&#8211; how are you defining modesty?   At it&#8217;s most fundamental level, there is modesty in wearing a bikini top&#8211; the woman in question is choosing to cover part of her breasts.   </p>
<p>So I&#8217;m guessing your definition is more along the lines of &#8220;men dictating the rules for women&#8217;s clothing&#8221;.  Which I agree is icky.</p>
<p>My conflict between feminism and tzniyut is that I like dressing tzanua, I feel much more comfortable that way.  What my particular boundaries are have been somewhat influenced by how halacha I&#8217;ve been raised with, that is part of who I am. I&#8217;ve half-heartedly tried to stretch those limits out of curiosity, but it&#8217;s never stuck.  </p>
<p>where I am with this at present:<br />
-not judging other women for how they dress, or assuming I know their motivations<br />
-not assuming that my opinions or practices will never change<br />
-making decisions on halacha for myself</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Danielle</title>
		<link>http://sotah.net/2008/02/19/modesty-is-a-dirty-word/#comment-533</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Danielle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://playingagirl.wordpress.com/?p=25#comment-533</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think you misunderstand modesty and, to some extent, a desire to be thin.  Not everyone desires to be thin in order to be desirable or beautiful for men.  People who are obese should desire to lose weight in order to be healthy.  Of course, not all people are motivated by health to the extent that they would undergo the major changes necessary to lose weight.  For those people, I think that some societal pressure to be thinner can be good.    For example, accept the premise that helping poor people is good.  While some will help poor people just because, others only help because they receive tax benefits, or because someone else is watching, or because of a belief in some moral obligation.  While tax cuts, societal pressure, or actions done only as a fear of Big Brother may not be good, giving to the poor is.  

As for modesty, it&#039;s not about &quot;women not tempting men by remaining silent and covered.&quot;  In fact, if it is, that&#039;s the perversion of modesty that I and other bloggers have discussed.  Modesty is about focusing on the inner person and applies both to males and females.  If someone is eating dinner next to you and chews with their mouth open and food continually falls out of their mouth and all over their shirt, the table, and in their hair, are you paying attention to what they may be saying?  Doubtfully.  That&#039;s an example of immodesty.  It has nothing to do with being silent or covered, but has to do with distraction from who a person is.  Sure, clothing and behavior reflect a person, and should.  However, just as modesty can be twisted, so can self expression.  While the girls at my university may have been expressing themselves by wearing furry jackets, ugg boots, and skirts so short I could see their butt cheeks, but at some point, that style of dress put enough pressure on others that I know people who stifled their own style to dress in such a manner because they wanted to be attractive and stylish.  To say that attempts to please men aren&#039;t a major motivator behind the dress of many girls would be incredibly nieve.  The goal of being &quot;modest&quot; is not to remove all self expression, nor is it to conform to the dictates of men.  It is to allow true self expression by removing distractions.  When someone sits next to you at dinner eating neatly, talking only after swallowing, and without other distractions, you can focus on their words, their intonations, and their personality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you misunderstand modesty and, to some extent, a desire to be thin.  Not everyone desires to be thin in order to be desirable or beautiful for men.  People who are obese should desire to lose weight in order to be healthy.  Of course, not all people are motivated by health to the extent that they would undergo the major changes necessary to lose weight.  For those people, I think that some societal pressure to be thinner can be good.    For example, accept the premise that helping poor people is good.  While some will help poor people just because, others only help because they receive tax benefits, or because someone else is watching, or because of a belief in some moral obligation.  While tax cuts, societal pressure, or actions done only as a fear of Big Brother may not be good, giving to the poor is.  </p>
<p>As for modesty, it&#8217;s not about &#8220;women not tempting men by remaining silent and covered.&#8221;  In fact, if it is, that&#8217;s the perversion of modesty that I and other bloggers have discussed.  Modesty is about focusing on the inner person and applies both to males and females.  If someone is eating dinner next to you and chews with their mouth open and food continually falls out of their mouth and all over their shirt, the table, and in their hair, are you paying attention to what they may be saying?  Doubtfully.  That&#8217;s an example of immodesty.  It has nothing to do with being silent or covered, but has to do with distraction from who a person is.  Sure, clothing and behavior reflect a person, and should.  However, just as modesty can be twisted, so can self expression.  While the girls at my university may have been expressing themselves by wearing furry jackets, ugg boots, and skirts so short I could see their butt cheeks, but at some point, that style of dress put enough pressure on others that I know people who stifled their own style to dress in such a manner because they wanted to be attractive and stylish.  To say that attempts to please men aren&#8217;t a major motivator behind the dress of many girls would be incredibly nieve.  The goal of being &#8220;modest&#8221; is not to remove all self expression, nor is it to conform to the dictates of men.  It is to allow true self expression by removing distractions.  When someone sits next to you at dinner eating neatly, talking only after swallowing, and without other distractions, you can focus on their words, their intonations, and their personality.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

