Comments on: The will of God and leaving Orthodox Judaism http://sotah.net/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/ Thu, 27 May 2010 22:30:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: afterallthistime http://sotah.net/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-667 afterallthistime Sun, 18 Apr 2010 04:06:21 +0000 http://playingagirl.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-667 It's been some time since we both posted our stories - how are things? I'm divorced. My eldest is, thankfully, not frum, and is finding his way in the world. My ex and I share custody in name - they live with him 99% of the time since it wasn't fair to take them out of the community they've lived in for their entire lives. Meanwhile, I'm working on developing a career for myself. It’s been some time since we both posted our stories – how are things? I’m divorced. My eldest is, thankfully, not frum, and is finding his way in the world. My ex and I share custody in name – they live with him 99% of the time since it wasn’t fair to take them out of the community they’ve lived in for their entire lives. Meanwhile, I’m working on developing a career for myself.

]]> By: linda http://sotah.net/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-665 linda Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:42:43 +0000 http://playingagirl.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-665 I am a convert to OJ but am struggling very much with hashkofa and basically realizing that my future lies with raising children and putting my dream of school on the back burner for good. I am struggling with the fact that I do not want children and yet people constantly tell me that once I have one that I will want more. I just do not have the desire to do it, not even one, though I do want to find someone and get married. But it seems that marriage in OJ is not about sharing a life and love with someone, it is either children or staying single. Even though I chose this religion, I feel trapped now and do not know how to continue. I tell myself I want to stay orthodox, but am not even sure if it is out of fear of transgression. What good is leaving? I was once on the other side. Is it possible to be OJ married and careerists? Is there anyone here who is OJ happily married and child-free? I feel often feel very overwhelmed by all of this. I'd love to talk with anyone. please feel free to respond to this/email me. I am a convert to OJ but am struggling very much with hashkofa and basically realizing that my future lies with raising children and putting my dream of school on the back burner for good. I am struggling with the fact that I do not want children and yet people constantly tell me that once I have one that I will want more. I just do not have the desire to do it, not even one, though I do want to find someone and get married. But it seems that marriage in OJ is not about sharing a life and love with someone, it is either children or staying single. Even though I chose this religion, I feel trapped now and do not know how to continue. I tell myself I want to stay orthodox, but am not even sure if it is out of fear of transgression. What good is leaving? I was once on the other side. Is it possible to be OJ married and careerists? Is there anyone here who is OJ happily married and child-free?

I feel often feel very overwhelmed by all of this. I’d love to talk with anyone. please feel free to respond to this/email me.

]]> By: linda http://sotah.net/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-664 linda Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:32:20 +0000 http://playingagirl.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-664 Hi, I also converted to Orthodox Judaism but am struggling very much with hashkofa and basically realizing that my future lies with raising children and putting my dream of finishing my education on the back burner for good. I feel as though I have no choice and often feel very overwhelmed by it. I'd love to talk with you if you'd be willing. Please feel free to email me. Hi, I also converted to Orthodox Judaism but am struggling very much with hashkofa and basically realizing that my future lies with raising children and putting my dream of finishing my education on the back burner for good. I feel as though I have no choice and often feel very overwhelmed by it. I’d love to talk with you if you’d be willing. Please feel free to email me.

]]> By: Tink Belle http://sotah.net/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-662 Tink Belle Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:20:37 +0000 http://playingagirl.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-662 Hi I am Jewish and am old to Modern Orthodox Liberal Judaism but new to Modern Orthodox Machmir Judaism. Seems like a tiny difference, huh? But no. Anyway I come from a secular background and have no problem incorporating the will of God with Orthodoxy. I don't know who is telling you that you cannot live out your career passion that God has called upon you for, and to be able to be shomer Shabbos, but maybe you need to find a new community or a new Rabbi who supports your calling. Hi I am Jewish and am old to Modern Orthodox Liberal Judaism but new to Modern Orthodox Machmir Judaism.

Seems like a tiny difference, huh? But no. Anyway I come from a secular background and have no problem incorporating the will of God with Orthodoxy.

I don’t know who is telling you that you cannot live out your career passion that God has called upon you for, and to be able to be shomer Shabbos, but maybe you need to find a new community or a new Rabbi who supports your calling.

]]> By: Mr Ez http://sotah.net/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-642 Mr Ez Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:35:43 +0000 http://playingagirl.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-642 You are a very sincere person and very deep. This is why you question. I have also been on a long quest, converting orthodox and now leaving. I've found it scary out here, but less scary than in there with the orthodox. Just don't forget that most jews are not so fundamentalist, most attending for social/cultural reasons and to be part of a crowd. Just because you are now unorthodox doesn't mean you have to lose all your friends and start again- unless you want to of course! Just declare that you don't believe to people when they talk their rubbish and they can't do anything about it. Those who tolerate you are fine, and those who don't are entitled to their opinion as well. Don't forget that they may even change, just like you have. Change is natural and we all grow: towards or away. Now I see that people who accept to be in a religion become very limited and small people. It's such a shame but that is their freedom to choose. So where should us 'apostates' find our spiritual nourishment? Well, that is very personal for each of us. If you still believe in God this can be one route. For me, as a scientist, I find infinitely more spirituality in everything scientific than in those bible stories, many of which must be untrue e.g. why is there no evidence of a worldwide flood in the ground, why does all the fossil, archaeological and genetic evidence show that we are not descended from Noah or Adam? Science is so wonderful, awesome extraordinary and, the best part, evidentual and provable. Just go to the Natural History Museum and see the infinitely complex story of geology and the evolution of life on Earth. It's the most wonderful story. So be happy, don't worry, keep asking those questions, remember that you can still be friends with people who disagree with you, chill out and remember...wishy-washy people are the majority. Whilst you are far from wishy-washy, you can still find friends among them. Finding deep friends is harder, but inevitable. Get married to a freethinker-that brings stability-that's what I'm trying to do! P.S. I love the comments people have posted. I can see there are so many good people who also have doubts: See! You can be a good person without being OJ! I wish I could meet you lovely people! You are a very sincere person and very deep. This is why you question. I have also been on a long quest, converting orthodox and now leaving. I’ve found it scary out here, but less scary than in there with the orthodox. Just don’t forget that most jews are not so fundamentalist, most attending for social/cultural reasons and to be part of a crowd. Just because you are now unorthodox doesn’t mean you have to lose all your friends and start again- unless you want to of course! Just declare that you don’t believe to people when they talk their rubbish and they can’t do anything about it. Those who tolerate you are fine, and those who don’t are entitled to their opinion as well. Don’t forget that they may even change, just like you have. Change is natural and we all grow: towards or away. Now I see that people who accept to be in a religion become very limited and small people. It’s such a shame but that is their freedom to choose. So where should us ‘apostates’ find our spiritual nourishment? Well, that is very personal for each of us. If you still believe in God this can be one route. For me, as a scientist, I find infinitely more spirituality in everything scientific than in those bible stories, many of which must be untrue e.g. why is there no evidence of a worldwide flood in the ground, why does all the fossil, archaeological and genetic evidence show that we are not descended from Noah or Adam? Science is so wonderful, awesome extraordinary and, the best part, evidentual and provable. Just go to the Natural History Museum and see the infinitely complex story of geology and the evolution of life on Earth. It’s the most wonderful story.

So be happy, don’t worry, keep asking those questions, remember that you can still be friends with people who disagree with you, chill out and remember…wishy-washy people are the majority. Whilst you are far from wishy-washy, you can still find friends among them. Finding deep friends is harder, but inevitable. Get married to a freethinker-that brings stability-that’s what I’m trying to do!

P.S. I love the comments people have posted. I can see there are so many good people who also have doubts: See! You can be a good person without being OJ! I wish I could meet you lovely people!

]]> By: Lisette http://sotah.net/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-640 Lisette Tue, 04 Aug 2009 04:08:25 +0000 http://playingagirl.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-640 I have decided to leave OJ after gradually becoming very observant over the years, more or less. No matter how unobservant I was from time to time, the main pull to OJ remained until I called my own bluff and eventually kept all the laws. But I began to feel very uneasy doing so, something was not right. It was not jiving with my inner beliefs about humanity and the universe. I felt some of it was dehumanizing and created division & resentment at the national & individual level. I felt there were strong psychological components as to why individuals and communities worship, as well as financial advantages, which made it all seem less genuine. I noticed certain behaviors were more common in those who rigidly observed than in those who did not. On a personal level I did not have good experiences, never really fit in. I did not know if I was the cause of that, or the effect. What once meant peace & solace became constant demand & deprivation. I felt punished somehow by being more restricted & forced to be different & work harder than others. Certain things did not make sense to me so I drew some of my own conclusions. I began looking at other religions and noticed similarities among all. How can was all be he chosen? Leaving was very hard, as we are creatures of habit, and I felt a lot of reactive guilt. I also feared offending other observers. Even though I was not strong enough to remain OJ (or perhaps I was strong enough to leave), I still respect others' observance. Eventually my emancipation felt like the right thing to do and I began to enjoy myself more. I, too, had trouble finding posts by infidels and others specifically leaving OJ, or any organized religion. I was not born into a very observant family, so I may not be considered a true escapee; perhaps I yearned for the familiar once again. Therefore, I am more fascinated by the stories of those who left OJ after being born & raised that way. I have decided to leave OJ after gradually becoming very observant over the years, more or less. No matter how unobservant I was from time to time, the main pull to OJ remained until I called my own bluff and eventually kept all the laws. But I began to feel very uneasy doing so, something was not right. It was not jiving with my inner beliefs about humanity and the universe. I felt some of it was dehumanizing and created division & resentment at the national & individual level. I felt there were strong psychological components as to why individuals and communities worship, as well as financial advantages, which made it all seem less genuine. I noticed certain behaviors were more common in those who rigidly observed than in those who did not. On a personal level I did not have good experiences, never really fit in. I did not know if I was the cause of that, or the effect. What once meant peace & solace became constant demand & deprivation. I felt punished somehow by being more restricted & forced to be different & work harder than others. Certain things did not make sense to me so I drew some of my own conclusions. I began looking at other religions and noticed similarities among all. How can was all be he chosen? Leaving was very hard, as we are creatures of habit, and I felt a lot of reactive guilt. I also feared offending other observers. Even though I was not strong enough to remain OJ (or perhaps I was strong enough to leave), I still respect others’ observance. Eventually my emancipation felt like the right thing to do and I began to enjoy myself more. I, too, had trouble finding posts by infidels and others specifically leaving OJ, or any organized religion. I was not born into a very observant family, so I may not be considered a true escapee; perhaps I yearned for the familiar once again. Therefore, I am more fascinated by the stories of those who left OJ after being born & raised that way.

]]> By: John http://sotah.net/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-614 John Thu, 28 May 2009 20:25:10 +0000 http://playingagirl.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-614 I understand the feeling. I am struggling to leave Orthodoxy myself. I am not leaving so much because of the extremism, though it is a part. The main reason is because I cannot accept the divine origin of the Torah. At the same time, it leaves nothing else the will of God. The only thing I can say is good luck to each individual in his or her personal search and I hope you find truth, even if it is relative. Tonight is Shavuot and since I cannot accept the traditional account of what supposedly happened on this night about 3300 years ago, I am left with searching for my own truth. Truth does exist, even if we percieve it though our own subjective experience. And there is nothing wrong with picking and choosing. There is no right way to be a Jew. I understand the feeling. I am struggling to leave Orthodoxy myself. I am not leaving so much because of the extremism, though it is a part. The main reason is because I cannot accept the divine origin of the Torah.
At the same time, it leaves nothing else the will of God. The only thing I can say is good luck to each individual in his or her personal search and I hope you find truth, even if it is relative. Tonight is Shavuot and since I cannot accept the traditional account of what supposedly happened on this night about 3300 years ago, I am left with searching for my own truth. Truth does exist, even if we percieve it though our own subjective experience. And there is nothing wrong with picking and choosing. There is no right way to be a Jew.

]]> By: donkey http://sotah.net/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-588 donkey Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:37:26 +0000 http://playingagirl.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-588 Cheer up, everbody! There cannot be one God if there are two sexes. If one sex is annulled, the laws of physics fill the vacuum and the other sex becomes a spiritual hermaphrodite. A very powerful condition but ultimately sterile. Good luck to you all. Cheer up, everbody! There cannot be one God if there are two sexes. If one sex is annulled, the laws of physics fill the vacuum and the other sex becomes a spiritual hermaphrodite. A very powerful condition but ultimately sterile. Good luck to you all.

]]> By: fllady http://sotah.net/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-587 fllady Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:36:44 +0000 http://playingagirl.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-587 I was UO for over twenty years, I couldn't take it anymore, there was no joy in my life, just drudgery. I am now going through a very ugly civil divorce, we have the get and it is very difficult on my six children. The oldest three won't speak to me. I didn't know there was any support system at all. I never knew anyone else left it! I am amazed. I was UO for over twenty years, I couldn’t take it anymore, there was no joy in my life, just drudgery. I am now going through a very ugly civil divorce, we have the get and it is very difficult on my six children. The oldest three won’t speak to me. I didn’t know there was any support system at all. I never knew anyone else left it! I am amazed.

]]> By: afterallthistime http://sotah.net/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-582 afterallthistime Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:46:41 +0000 http://playingagirl.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/the-will-of-god-and-leaving-orthodox-judaism/#comment-582 It's ironic that the last time I searched for leaving judaism was not long before you made this post. My story is about a girl who was standing too close to the edge of the ocean and got pulled-in by the tide; a riptide. Or, maybe it was a tornado, a natural disaster, that sucked me up and spit me out some twenty turbulent years later. Guess what Toto? I'm not in Kansas anymore. Now, I have four teenage children born in less than four years and a husband that I married out of "family" pressure that I really dislike. AND I do not believe in orthodoxy per se. It’s ironic that the last time I searched for leaving judaism was not long before you made this post. My story is about a girl who was standing too close to the edge of the ocean and got pulled-in by the tide; a riptide. Or, maybe it was a tornado, a natural disaster, that sucked me up and spit me out some twenty turbulent years later.
Guess what Toto? I’m not in Kansas anymore. Now, I have four teenage children born in less than four years and a husband that I married out of “family” pressure that I really dislike. AND I do not believe in orthodoxy per se.

]]>